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The Degrassi Digest # 59 --March 15,1999
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Degrassi Digest has been divided into #59 and #60, because it is really big.
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ooO Ooo
This graphic was sent by Erin Sunderland
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Answers From last week:
http://archives.degrassi.ca/Index/Trivia/DD/march99.htm
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I N S I D E:
Subject: Puh-leeease!
Subject: SCHOOL'S OUT
Subject: Re: Degrassi Digest #58
Subject: LIZ OUT OF LINE
Subject: School's out
Subject: Lighten Up folks....
Subject: a comment about the Dawson's Creek and Ready or Not thing...
Subject: Bikini incident...LET'S MOVE ON, PLEASE!
Subject: The original Degrassi fan club
Subject: give Mr. Sutcliffe a break
Subject: Andrew Sutcliffe
Subject: degrassi quotes
Subject: !idea!
Subject: TO RESPOND TO MY CRITICS - DIGEST 58 - RE: SCHOOLS OUT
Subject: Thankful for Degrassi
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From: "Keira Mellis"
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: Puh-leeease!
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:04:28 PST
Is it just me, or am I the only one that does not enjoy reading epic
sized posts from Andrew Sutcliffe every edition? Degrassi was a show,
it was good, everyone's got their opinions, but let's not try to treat
this too seriously. C'mon people, it was just a show! I miss it, but
there's more to life than Degrassi.
}|{K-Baby}|{
Queen Of Di§co
*Mark* If you do not like his posts, simply skip them. There is no limit to expression, as long as it is not offensive, vulgar, and it should be related somewhat to Degrassi. Thanks for your comments.
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From: "sedl"
To: <post@degrassi.org>
Subject: SCHOOL'S OUT
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:07:46 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
Hi. Just a quick post to ask any fellow Australian's if they have a copy of
School's Out that they would be willing to sell. Please email me.
Thanks
Lou
*Mark* check out http://www.degrassi.ca/Features/pertinentaddresses.htm
you can also e-mail me privately and we can make arrangements for you to get School's Out.
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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:08:33 -0500
From: Doug
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; I)
To: Degrassi Digest <webmaster@degrassi.org>
Subject: Re: Degrassi Digest #58
cool...where can i get copies of old episodes? that's what i really need.
later..
db
*Mark* check out http://www.degrassi.ca/Features/pertinentaddresses.htm
you can also e-mail me privately and we can make arrangements for you to get School's Out.
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From: "ANDREW SUTCLIFFE"
To: "Degrassi Digest" <post@degrassi.org>
Subject: LIZ OUT OF LINE
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 02:26:24 +1100
Liz was totally out of line to attack Erica for having the abortion.
This is one area where I did agree with Lucy that it is a womans right to pro-choice however there is an obligation to consult the father which Ercia didn't do.
I wonder what eveybody else thinks ?
*Mark* In my opinion, Liz was completely nuts. However, we should respect the fact that there are people who are pro-life, and people who are pro-choice...but putting those awful posters on the wall is mean.
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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:24:30 -0600
From: Rachel Cherwinski
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: School's out
Ok..I completely disagree with what Andrew Sutcliffe said about School's
out, regarding the whole Joey/Caitlin issue. Here are some technical
things to consider: 1)Caitlin & Claude were not a couple when Joey asked
Caitlin out..Caitlin had been telling Maya she was just friends with
Claude..
2)Caitlin decided she liked Claude the same day asked her out..Plus
Caitlin & Claude didn't have the history, that her and Joey had
regarding dating.
3) Joey and Caitlin were not a couple when Joey asked her out..they were
just friends
4) When Claude asked Caitlin out..They had not been on a date
before..nor had they been going out as couple.
5) In School's out..Joey & Caitlin had not broken up, they just had a
fight..before Joey started dating Tessa..
6) Tessa did not know Joey & Caitlin were a couple when she first
started dating Joey (she thought Joey was single)..it wasn't until after
they'd been going out for a while she found out Joey was dating Caitlin
right from the begining and she still stayed with him..even though she
could of broke up with him..
7)Joey was dating Tessa and Caitlin at the same time..
8)Joey lead Tessa into thinking he was single the whole entire time they
were together.
So in reality..Joey was a jerk, because he lead Tessa on into believing
he wasn't dating anyone else. He also could have told Tessa from day
one, he was dating Caitlin. Plus the whole Claude thing...It wasn't the
same thing as the Joey/Tessa thing..Because Caitlin wasn't sleeping with
Claude or dating him for a long time,(they were just friends) before
Joey asked her out. Cailtan had just decided she liked Claude a few days
before Joey even asked her out. So Cailan wasn't cheating on Claude
because they weren't even a couple yet. Caitlin was just in an awkward
position of liking two guys at the same time, and not knowing who to
choose.
It was much worse in Joey's case (he knew exactly what he was doing),
because him and Caitlin had a long history together, and were a couple
before Tessa entered picture. Plus Joey had suspisions that Caitlin
liked Claude way before he asked her out, yet he still asked her out
anyway. Joey was just trying to beat Claude to the punch, because he was
jealous of him for taking Caitlin's attention away from him. So I think
Caitlin shouldn't of said yes to Joey, if she really like Claude more.
Joey was the bigger jerk in the end because he was still technically
dating Caitlin at the same time as Tessa. Joey could of stopped cheating
with Tessa, but he didn't. So this is just some technical things I have
noticed, which totally prooves my point.
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From: "Jones, Brian"
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: Lighten Up folks....
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:25:48 -0500
Mark-
Brian here, first time poster but longtime reader. Really enjoy your
website- outstanding quality and information. Keep up the good work. Two
quick things- first, I understand the DD is a forum for fans to offer
opinions but it seems now to have turned into a soapbox for 6 page
dissertations on the dangers of feminism. I'll be honest with you- I scroll
right through them, who has time to read all of this in our busy lives? So
I am pleading for everyone to relax a bit and let's start posting those
interesting facts, the fun stories, and other info that makes the DD so
enjoyable to read. Far be it for me to limit what people say, but c'mon,
some of these posts are killing me.
With that in mind, I wanted to report that this Yankee from Washington DC,
being inspired by your Degrassi pilgrimmage last year, will be traveling to
Toronto this weekend to check out the sites. And guess who will be my
personal guide? Dan Woods, aka Mr. Raditch himself. After emailing him
for a few months, he graciously offered to show me the places that made
Degrassi famous. Just thought everyone would like to know how great the
stars are to their devoted fans. I will give you a report after I return.
*Mark* Please send us a commentary about the trip at webmaster@degrassi.org
I will put it in the fans section of the Degrassi Archives.
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X-Originating-IP: [206.172.226.209]
From: "Erin Sunderland"
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: a comment about the Dawson's Creek and Ready or Not thing...
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:01:37 EST
I'm just commenting about what "AMFM88" said about how Dawson's Creek
is a lot like Degrassi while Ready or Not was nothing like it.
I don't see how you can say that Dawson's Creek is a lot like Degrassi?
Some things that are not like Degrassi are how:
*** Pacey sleeps with his teacher!!!!!
*** Dawson "falls in love" with Jen then get's dumped, then goes out
with Joey and "falls in love". Then Joey dumps Dawson and now he seems
to be inlove with both of them!!!
*** Joey's boyfriend is now gay!
*** They talk like they're in their like 30's!
*** NO one's that serious in grade 10!!!
So Dawson's Creek is EXTREMELY unrealistic! I still like the show but it
is so fake! Don't get me wrong cause I watch it every friday I'm just
showing how it can't compare to Degrassi.
ON the other hand, Ready or Not is much more like Degrassi. Yes I admmit
it is pretty boring but it's not as far out there as Dawson's Creek. At
least they're still dealing with issues that could actually happen. And
I don't think that they're trying to cover up the fact that it's
Canadian. It's not as obvious as Degrassi is but it's so obvious that it
was filmed in Missisagua. The episode where Amanda was playing the
"Amazim" for her dad at that toystore was filmed town town toronto. They
showed the sign and I've seen it. The only thing that bugged me was the
fact that they used American money. That sortof got to me.
That's all I've got to say. Reply on whether you agree with me or not.
*Mark* I've seen a couple of episodes of Dawson's Creek and one of my close friends loves the show, i think it is not realistic and more like a teen soap opera...
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From: HeyItsCass
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 02:14:02 EST
To: webmaster@degrassi.org
Subject: Bikini incident...LET'S MOVE ON, PLEASE!
Hi everyone!
Listen, I am REALLY getting sick of this whole argument over the bikini
incident. It was interesting the first umpteen times, but come on now! First
of all, the word is not spelled SHOVANIST...it is spelled CHAUVINIST. Second,
let's keep in mind that this was a show about HIGH SCHOOL KIDS. The beauty of
the teenage years is that it is a time for exploration of one's identity.
Children are being exposed to more adult issues while hormones are running
rampant. When I was in high school, I hung around with some guys who were
into the whole rock star thing. Scantily clad women seemed to be a part of
this...check out some rock videos from the 80's. And of course, there would
be some girls who would overhear the whole thing and cry chauvinism. Is it?
Sure it is, but different people have different perceptions regarding the same
situation. And if the same girls who cried chauvinism were found later
checking out some guy's butt, can you say it's a double standard? Well, of
course it is! Again, it depends on your perception. Personally, I respected
all of the views that have been presented in the Digest. They all had some
good arguments, and I commend them for this. But come on people. The bikini
incident was simply an incident that could have taken place in any high
school. I don't think the writers had any ulterior motives...they were simply
showing different sides of the same coin. I would also like to mention a few
of my thoughts on the whole Joey/Tessa/Caitlin situation in School's Out.
Again, think HIGH SCHOOL and HORMONES...these things happen. Sure, Joey was
wrong for doing what he did, as was Caitlin for doing what she had done years
earlier with Claude. How many of us thought we had found "the one" in high
school, only to end up in a similar situation? I don't think either of them
were justified in doing what they did. But I do, however, accept it as a
normal fact of TEENAGE LIFE! It happens, has happened, and will continue to
happen. I would much rather see things presented realistically, as Degrassi
did, than see them presented in the plastic world of other shows geared toward
the teen set (I won't mention any names). Now can we possibly move on to some
other topics? By the way, I really enjoyed Andrew's list of things Rick could
have done if he remained on the show...that was one character I hated to see
go.
---Cassandra Z.
*Mark* Please e-mail me privately re: taping of episodes..Direct Cinema ca be accessed at
http://www.degrassi.ca/Features/pertinentaddresses.htm
Degrassi is shown on TRIO in the U.S, reports Natalie Earl, from California.
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From: "Shawna Glenwood"
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:40:33 +0000
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: The original Degrassi fan club
I remember back in the 1980s, I used to send away for those Degrassi student newspapers and Discussion Guides. They used to have this mail-order fan club you could join. They'd give away T-shirts, books, and stuff. How many of the Degrassi subscribers were part of the original fan club? Did any of you attend high school together?
*Mark* Yes, in the 1980's, PWT (Playing With Time) and the WGBH Educational Foundation sent out educational newspapers, and PWT sold T-Shirts (I bought three of them). The books can still be bought, but the only one which was a manuscript, but never got developed into a book was Arthur and Yick. You can buy the books at http://www.amazon.com and other online book stores. Originally, they are supposed to be $5.00
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X-Originating-IP: [131.162.155.71]
From: "C MacGregor"
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: give Mr. Sutcliffe a break
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:54:29 PST
Hello, its MacGregor here, I read the digest every week, but I barely
ever bother to post. I've seen every episode about ten times since I was
a pre teen, and I consider myself to know quite a bit about the show. I
think everyone is being to critical of Mr. Sutcliffe. I think his
insights to show are done quite well and he backs them up quite well
with his knowledge of the show. I agree with most of his points he makes
on the show and I believe that people are too quick to respond to his
remarks before reading them through. Maybe you don't agree with the
topic he is talking about but what he has to say about a lot of the time
has a lot a truth with. All of your insights on Michelle's father, Joey
and Caitlin past, and the bikini girls I'm with you man, I just thought
there is another hard core degrassi fan who is not against you, one of
the reasons I don't post to often is because you are conveying a lot of
the same insights I get out of the show as well. Keep fightin the power
brother
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X-Originating-IP: [206.172.140.40]
From: "stefan bartlett"
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: Andrew Sutcliffe
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:19:25 PST
Andrew, what's up, buddy?!?! Where do you have the time to write
long drawn out essays about Degrassi? I liked the show when I was
younger and I still enjoy watching the reruns whenever they are on tv,
but that is where it ends. Degrassi should be enjoyed for what it is
........ a good tv show, not a reflection of life for teenagers in
toronto. Life is for the living!!! Let go of your opinions on Degrassi...
s.bartlett
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From: "joe & patti"
To: <webmaster@degrassi.org>
Subject: degrassi quotes
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:46:15 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
"derek you are getting wilder and wilder, you take and take but you never give. I'm sick! Sick and tired of your liiieees!" -Wheels' grandma.
*Mark* Thanks for submitting your quotes.
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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:54:09 -0500
From: Courtney
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I)
To: webmaster@degrassi.org
Subject: !idea!
I have the most outrageous idea everyone! If we all want Degrassi back
on the air, let's do something about it. I mean, nothing is going to
happen if we all sit on our butts just *praying* for it to come back.
Take some affirmative action, mail your broadcasting stations with
reasons as to why Degrassi should be put back on the air. If the
broadcasting stations don't hear responses from the viewers, they assume
that taking the shows off are good. The stations don't really care what
they put on unless it attracts viewers in a positive way. If every fan
took a stand against the injustice, maybe we'd all see our much beloved
Degrassi re-runs. :)
Ciao,
Courtney
*Mark* Degrassi can only be seen on PBS, CBC, Showcase, and in the U.S. and anywhere else...cable, so I guess try to e-mail or write the station. The Disney Channel used to broadcast Kids of Degrassi Street...but do not try the major networks...Degrassi was never on those channels whose parents are the major networks.
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From: "ANDREW SUTCLIFFE"
To: "Degrassi Digest" <post@degrassi.org>
Subject: TO RESPOND TO MY CRITICS - DIGEST 58 - RE: SCHOOLS OUT
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 02:56:50 +1100
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Having run for cover as Mark suggested - I'm now back online to respond to those both imaginative and colourful posts by ALWAYS RIGHT and MACARENA MARTFELD ( I really do love you girls ) and am happy to talk to any of you who wish to email me for a private debate ( as my pal ZOE did - who is a real babe ). I hope everyone's finding this ongoing debate entertaining.
There has been some comment that my posts are offensive to some people but please note they are not intended to be. Also my spelling has been questioned - I say what Rick once said - "big deal" . My email program doesn't have a working spell-checker and spelling is done off the top of my head and there's the odd typo.. The purposes of writing all these analytical posts is I know some of you will find them either amusing or controversial.. I am also expressing one point of view being aware others have different points of view. I may not be always right.
Lets get this clear - the reason I said I SORT OF think Caitlin got what she deserved in Schools Out was because of what she did to Joey with Claude earlier - ( I think it balances things up - to get even ) AND because of the way she reacted to his engagement ring. The point about consent was merely to demonstrate grounds or JUSTIFICATION for ending relationships. She got back what she gave out and I thought that was justice for Joey. She got a dose of her own medicine Both of them were wrong to do what they did. And any references to feminists - I'm talking about the radical extremist feminists not your garden variety feminist.
I do think Schools Out has a slant and I would point out to those who overlooked my remarks that I did say IT IS REALISTIC because some guys do behave like that - JOEY etc.... I accept they do. I don't deny it. But I also don't see why the guys should get dumped on without the girls getting the same.
I also said I thought Joey acted wrongly in his approach - not breaking up with Caitlin but I do believe - BALANCING UP prior conduct of Caitlin - the OVERALL PICTURE - he was somewhat justified in terms of getting even with Caitlin ( not that that was his intent at the time ). To agree with MARK - they were BOTH VICTIMS at different times.
To the writer of the post named "ALWAYS RIGHT" I am not a teenager but several years older than 25 ( although I only look and feel 25 - and a young 25 ). and have sort of a teenagers attitude some of the time ( to lighten up ) and make no apologies for it. I first saw Degrassi went I was in my 20s. To respond to your comments about Joey's justification to cheat on Caitlin - the fact is he was attached to Caitlin ( and marriage is simply a legal recognition of such attachments that was invented 400 years ago - prior to about 400 years ago there was no marriage license etc - a man took a woman as his wife and they were considered married ( as still happens today in primative societies ) - only the rich got married in churches ). I was simply pointing out that up until the 1970s one of the only grounds for ending such attachments ( legally ) was a repeated refusal to have sex. Thats what the Courts and law recognized - I didn't come up with that idea - they did. I trust you accept Joey had a right to break up with Caitlin for refusing sex just as I accept Caitlin had a right to refuse sex. All I am saying that in doing so she should have been aware it may have led to the breakup of the relationship and what actually did happen in the movie. I agree with Mark that Joey got what he deserved but so did Caitlin. If my views are considered sexists them perhaps thats what I am but I don't really care. - it doesn't worry me. And I did not state Joey was justified in cheating on Caitlin just because she refused sex but because of the way she acted overall - remember that it was her rejecting his engagement ring that caused him to leave the party with Tessa and to accept her invitation to go out. Sex had nothing to do with his decision to go out with Tessa - it was her rejection of the ring which Joey saw as rejection of his affection - sex only came into it later on in his decision to continue to go out with Tessa.
I am well aware one of your hidden "messages" in the film ( the obvious one ) was that boys should give girls consideration in being "ready" for sex but what about the opposite viewpoint about girls having consideration for the guys being ready ? Where's the feminist notion of equality on that issue ? Another message of the film may well be if girls don't give that consideration to a guy they end up as Caitlin did - just as the message to guys is if you do what Joey did ( not give consideration to your love ) and play around with others you end up with nobody. So its a dual message there. I take the view Caitlin should have given some consideration to Joey - and understood why he did what he did and forgiven him - because she demanded consideration from him - why shouldn't she give it to him ?. She can't have it both ways and that's the thrust of your argument. That is precisely why I say double standards from the female viewpoint exists in the film. And I am merely pointing it out as objective analysis - not trying to bash feminism or degrade anyone. Also there is no way anyone could ever consider Caitlin ( or even Tessa ) as a slut or a prude for their conduct - she was inactive and the other not - and there's nothing wrong with that either way.
I suggest everyone go and replay Schools Out and carefully note what was said and done and in what sequence and you'll see I am on track. There were MANY messages in the movie not just one message, There was a conflict of interest there - Joey was "ready" - Caitlin was not and that confilct caused problems as did the failure to communicate.
By the way I wasn't watching Tessa's tits and really didn't notice them until you brought them up - but I did notice and check out the size of her lips. And I would point out to all the girls out there she WAS one of the sexiest girls in the show ( especially with those baby blues and that sexy voice ). Yick said she had a sexy mind as well in one episode - which I thought was spot on.
==============================================================================
Responding to MACARENA MARTFELDS post - I am not and have never generalized every woman as feminist because of the qualities you mentioned ( assertiveness etc...) - you are jumping to conclusions. I have NEVER said or implied as you say in your post feminists are "lesbians " or "male bashers" or "suppressing or manipulating men" - here we go again everyone - misrepresenting what my position and what I said - I simply am pointing out issues and facts in the show that appear to me to have a slant designed to dump on the guys ( I'd love to know where you got that notion about lesbians ). I do not support the oppression of women - however the problem with some women is they see certain things as oppression when really they are not - take the bikini video - Alison and Amy didn't see it as oppression but a chance to make some bucks - but Lucy and LD did ( the same ones who were pointing a video camera at Wheel's backside ). What if Wheel's had cried out sexism or oppression over that incident ? Radical feminists see pornography ( the Hugh Hefners and Bob Guccione's of the world ) as oppression of women - yet other women, particularly many involved in that industry ( many of whom these days are top models ), see it as a way to make a lot of easy money. They also view all men as rapists. My original post merely said I thought Joey had a right to suspend the relationship with Caitlin because of her rejection and later refusal and that in the past the law recoginzed this as a legitimate reason for ceasing relationships. I was not arguing the finite morality of cheating. But as people last digest have said - Joey was NOT married to Caitlin - he was free to do what he liked whether Caitlin liked it or not ( just as married people are legally free to do the same - it is not a crinimal offense to have an extramaritial affair - its morally questionable - but you don't go to jail for it ). The issue of whether they were married or not is totally IRRELEVANT - but the fact is they were "attached" in some form to each other and there are justifiable grounds for breaking such attachments.
I am aware there was "female flesh" shown in the show ( Steph ) in various forms but I find it curious that it was Joey who was exposed in the movie and Caitlin the innocent little victim was never exposed - you never saw anything of her much - not even a two piece bikini - and that is consistent with the feminist slant of the movie by trying to depict her as completely pure without fault. While Tessa may have been exposed in the movie - but I didn't pay any attention to it if anybody's interested - we must remember she was trying to nail and trap Joey - effectively steal him from Caitlin. She was also was a predator - she threw herself at him - sex on the second date wasn't it ? ( and I'd like to know if she had broken off her relationship with Todd when she went after Joey - I don't seem to recall any formal breakup with him ).
I am also not at all trying to justify promiscuity - I personally believe in a love relationship it is out of the question. But it really depends on whether you see yourself in a love relationship - and I suppose our friend Joey didn't really see himself in that with Caitlin. In certain sets of circumstances some guys take the view that to cheat is ok especially if their girlfriend isn't satisfying their desires. Females need to understand that some guys may see the relationship as one of sex being the dominant motive for it existing rather than love - and in such circumstances cheating often happens - but where love is the dominant motive and sex is second cheating rarely happens if at all.
I don't have any "obsession with Caitlin" - I thought she was nice in the early episodes of the show - when Rick and Joey were around but thought she was crazy to go with Clode - and as ANGE in the last digest said Caitlin was "self rightous and just annoying" - all that goody-goody stuff - petitions etc.. and going around with Clode to the spraypaint the missile factory turned me off. Little Miss Perfect was a phrase Spike used to describe her once. Its quite obvious from the posts Caitlin is seen by many as one of the darlings of the feminist movement of Canada but I disagree with this portrayal of her as a totally innocent victim when she was as guilty as Joey was of wrong behaviour - be it several years earlier. It is blatantly dishonest of the scriptwriters to do so and reinforces my view the movie had a feminist agenda. ( Many people will know the Canadian feminists are some of the most radical and militant in the world - like the time a few years ago they all marched over the bridge across Niagara Falls without their bras on or something silly like that to prove some obscure point ( as a media stunt ) - and their sort of thinking comes thru in this film ). That fact is evidenced by that little scene at the end at Alexa's and Simons wedding reception where Cailtin had that smug little look on her face when she made Joey feel and look guilty when they were talking about "the summer" - a scene that I thought was TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE given her prior behaviour and caused me to wake up as to what this film was really about. In saying that I am not trying to degrade Caitlin as representing an intelligent young woman but one must see both sides of the story. You can't just portray Joey as bad when she did the same things to him beforehand. Where in the movie is any criticism of or incorrect conduct by the girls ? The fact you can't think of any immediately is evidence there's a slant. My overall point is I don't think it is fair of PWT to have done it that way.
ANGE has summed it up corectly that SCHOOLS OUT was a "reality check"..
The post relating to "Joeys bum" being displayed in the Canadian version of Schools Out was not actually meant to be published - it was a private question to Mark as Webmaster that accidentally got put in the digest. I don't use that sort of language in public Mark may have thought it was relevant..
I don't know what the correct definition of "feminism" is nor do I think anyone else does - I am aware there are different streams of it - I use it to describe conduct that tries to prevent or suppress the male viewpoint toward females that is not unreasonable. If feminists think guys will tollerate anyone telling them how they should think they will be greatly disappointed. They have no right to do so. Why should guys adjust their way of thinking ? Having said that I and most intelligent guys are not inflexible to ideas particularly about equal rights for women etc.. including the right to freedom from abuse ( if I had been at Degrassi when Scott bashed up lovely Kathleen I'd have beaten the crap out of him for doing that to her ) If you look at my posts in digests prior to Christmas you won't see any reference to "feminism" - so to say all my posts are about it are not right - its just my topic analysis at the moment. I actually see myself - surprise surprise - as a male feminist up to a point..
P.S. The reason I partly put that comment in about Joey and "who could blame him" was in case Tessa ( Kirsten Bourne ) was on the digest list and she'd give me a call. And because I knew there would be a reaction like I got Given what I said above - who could blame him anyway ?
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I think the reason I got so much criticism last digest was not because of what I said about Schools Out but because I hit the nail on the head and exposed the objective of the movie - and some people got upset with me over it and attacked the man rather than my arguments. Or they were confused.. One thing that struck me about last Digests posts about my comments is that most of the people who responded only picked the bits they wanted to pick and ignored all the rest - only looked at one side of things - which is typical.
( Of course I must admit we guys often do deserve it - which explains why PWT did the film that way - perhaps its the shock treatment ? )
I would like to hear from all those who criticised my post whether they think Caitlin was justified in seeing and kissing Claude before she broke up with Joey ? It should be remembered she dumped him for Claude because he wasn't satisfying her "needs" at the time - while Claude did. Of course she used Claude and then dumped him when he didn't measure up. Then she was a factor in Claude's suicide later on.
Before people respond to this and other posts I would respectfully ask people to properly read what I've said because from some of these replies its clear people are skimming over it once - forming a quick impression - jumping to conclusions and trying to twist what I said - please note my exact wording and qualifications because many of these replies have gone off at a tangent.
Given that purpose of my posts on sexism has been to deliberately stir up some debate for the digest I find it interesting the attitude being displayed by a very small number of female digest readers - jumping on and labelling me a sexist when I point out things about the show that have a feminist slant - this is exactly what goes on currently in Australia when anyone says anything about migrants - you're immediately jumped on and labelled a racist - and its wrong. When you can't exercise free speech without being attacked that is true oppression - and in todays world guys are being subject to oppression. .
For everyone's information I, like MARK, love Degrassi and play it over and over. For me being a little bit older than most of you ( but in body only not mind and spirit ) it deals with ADULT issues far more than any other show and there was certainly nothing like it when I was a teenager ( I had to put up with reruns of the Brady Bunch and Fred Flintstone ). It is really an adult show adapted for teenagers - accordingly I feel justified making relevant commentaries on it. On Mark's website where everyone can send their photos is a picture of me I did alongside a gorgeous young lady who would be well known to all of you if anyone is interested -
http://archives.degrassi.ca/Index/Fans/
*Mark* Andrew, try to make your posts more brief, or chop them off into 4 parts..I do not think Caitlin got what she deserved, just because she went out with Claude before dumping Joey makes it wrong, but it does not make it right for Joey to get revenge. 2 wrongs do not make a right. What Caitlin did was not nice, but what Joey did was crappy...deliberately cheating on both women, not telling either of them that he was seeing and sleeping with both of them. As soon as Caitlin knew she was getting very close to Claude, she dumped Joey...she did not stray him on throughout the semester like Joey did...He used both women, he got what he deserved...He lost Caitlin, Tessa, and Snake...His wonderful summer of EVERYTHING ended up a summer of nothing. His idea of a perfect summer was like a perfect bubble, but it was bound to burst.
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X-Internal-ID: 36D5914D00014429
From: "Danny Rinehart"
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:35:17 +0000
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: Thankful for Degrassi
X-Mailer: Web Based Pronto
Lately I have been thinking about the shows that gave me the most happiness in my adolescence. Of course Degrassi is way high on my list. It was one of the few realistic, intelligent shows that did not make teenagers look stupid. You guys should submit a DeGrassi Street sign to the Smithsonian museum.
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End of #59---Onto #60
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