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The Degrassi Digest # 58 February 22, 1999
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I have some trivia questions taken from the Encyclopedia of Television Facts:

What was the quota for the length of Degrassi Digest articles?
How much did Degrassi Digest cost?
What is the name of the local hangout for hamburgers and fries?
What is the name of the play where Kathleen played Isabel, Caitlin played Elizabeth, and Melanie played a wench?
What was the name of the committee that Kathleen founded?
Who won 1st,2nd,and 3rd place in the Science Fair?
Who were the pinups in the Joey's locker called?
What was the name of the egg that Spike had to take care of?
What was the FM number of CRAZ Radio where Joey worked?
Where did Liz come from?
Who was editor of the school yearbook in the second season?
What is the birthsign of Heather and Erica?
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I N S I D E:

JOEY'S BIKINI GIRL VIDEO - GARBAGE
An interjection
RICK - THINGS HE COULD HAVE DONE IN THE SHOW
SCHOOLS OUT SOUNDTRACK MUSIC
RESPONDING TO DIGEST #57 POINTS
in response to Caitlin got what she deserved?
enough dawson bashing!
Anais Granofsky on OWL TV
an Australian fan
"feminism"
Re: School's Out Video!!!
Degrassi World # 39: Snake Gets a Date, written by Andrew Sutcliffe

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From: "ANDREW SUTCLIFFE" <asutc@mpx.com.au>
To: "Degrassi Digest" <post@degrassi.org>
Subject: JOEY'S BIKINI GIRL VIDEO - GARBAGE

don't you all think with the bikini girl video ephisode that it may have been also criticising & analogizing Joey and the guys by the fact they had him shoot it in and amongst the dumpster and piles of garbage ? Another subtle feminist technique ? As if to say this type of footage is garbage and belongs with it. The reason I say that is why would Joey in his right mind want to shoot his long planned spectacular Zit Remedy video amongst a the rubbish bins ? It doesn't make sense - obviously there was a motive by the scriptwriters there - a hidden agenda.
Then there was also Lucy and LD pushing Joey into the garabge as they walked off after they refused to shoot it ( as if he's garbage too ) with LD calling Joey a "shovanist" - the same LD who moments before was focusing Lucy's video camera at Wheel's behind in tight jeans and was giggling with Lucy about it. Its ok for the girls to do it but not the guys.

That is is underlying message I see in that segment of the show.

And can anyone imagine Alison and Amy - the two princesses of Degrassi - actually agreeing to step into a dumpster amongst piles of garbage in bikinis ? - its a little bit hard to swallow.

The more I look at that ephisode the more I see a dumping on guys views and I think everyone would agree I have a right to point out the double standards of it which also occurred elsewhere in the show. I am only doing it for the sake of objective analysis of the show not to dump on anyone or any idea. Nevertheless it was all very entertaining.
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Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:17:27 +1100
To: post@degrassi.org
From: ange
Subject: An interjection

Hi all,

Just thought I'd reply to Andrew Sutcliffe's post.

I'm kind of curious about what exactly is impractical about interracial
dating. Please, enlighten me. I doubt however, that you could say
anything to convince me of your viewpoint.

And to Natasha (and any other Lucy fans)
I'm not sure if this was already posted, but has anyone else seen Lucy on
La Femme Nikita? She plays Nikita's neighbour, Carla.

And as for the Caitlin, Joey, Tessa thing . . .

Well, I never really liked Caitlin, not because she was a feminist, but
because she was so self-rightous and . . . just annoying. I thought Tessa
and Joey were a better match than Caitlin and Joey, however, Joey was
definately in the wrong, he should have made a choice - you can't have
everything. You can try, but it just gets too complex and is too much bother.

And again to Andrew. I don't see that the Degrassi film had a particularly
feminist slant. I think it had more of an "reality check" streak. For
most main characters there was a journey either towards or away from
independance, others had to face adult responsibilities for the first time
and others leave all they know to start new lives.

Anyway, that's my two cents once more.

Regards
Ange

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From: ANDREW SUTCLIFFE
To: Degrassi Digest <post@degrassi.org>
Date: Thursday, 28 January 1999 1:53
Subject: RICK - THINGS HE COULD HAVE DONE IN THE SHOW

Here's a list of possible things RICK could have done in the show if he'd stayed around:- ( its not a definitive list )

**** Joined the Zit Remedy as drummer
**** Kept DWANE and his friends in line at Jnr High
**** Been the focus of Alison's and or Melanie's attention
**** Ran for Student President
**** Taken out Steph after the fiasco with Wheels and Simon
**** Bought the beer for the p a r t y
**** Advised Kathleen on a dress code for Jnr High

**** Saved Kathleen & Melanie when they were tied to a post in the quadrangle in underwear with 9ner written on their foreheads.
**** Put a stop to DWANE, NICK & TABI's initiation activities at Degrassi High
**** Helped Arthur and Yick wallpaper Raddich's house
**** Helped Erica get into the abortion clinic unmolested
**** Beat up SCOTT when he bashed up Kathleen
**** Gone with Wheels, Joey and Snake to that strip joint to see Candy Cupcakes and made a late entry visit on the same night to Melanie's party.
**** Dated all the Degrassi girls - one after the other - including Spike & Tabi
**** Been the first in Degrassi High to ride a motor bike to school
**** Help fix Joey's car when it broke down on the backroad
**** Put a condom over DWANE'S head when after the water bomb incident
**** Set Diana's big brother straight about the fact smoking is cool and a necessity for high school
**** Liberated a car for use in Joey's video so they wouldn't need Clutch's
**** Had a word with Lucy about the need for bikini girls in rock videos
**** Talked Caitlin out of going out with Clode
**** Taken Alison to all the dances
**** Played the part of a bikie in IT CREEPS.
**** Advised Joey how to juggle Caitlin and Tessa in SCHOOLS OUT

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From: ANDREW SUTCLIFFE <asutc@mpx.com.au>
To: Degrassi Digest <post@degrassi.org>
Date: Thursday, 28 January 1999 1:54
Subject: SCHOOLS OUT SOUNDTRACK MUSIC

For anyone in Australia who would like a copy of the music off Schools Out - the Harem Scarem tracks and Gowan songs I bought copies of them in Toronto several years ago. I can also tell you where to order an original copy which would be a better option. The Harem Scarem album is worth getting on its own as it is a first class one of its type and was never released in Australia.

*Mark* I will be putting together a School's out soundtrack, with a listing on
http://www.degrassi.ca/Shows/School's-Out/
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From: "ANDREW SUTCLIFFE"
To: "Degrassi Digest" <post@degrassi.org>
Subject: RESPONDING TO DIGEST #57 POINTS
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 02:08:23 +1100

For ZOE JACKSON - I won't bother responding in too much detail to that somewhat hysterical commentary on my position and views. The fact is that bikini girl ephisode contained a number of double standards - proported feminists crying sexism when they were doing sexists things ( videocameras pointed at male butts ). Lucy and LD had more hide than a team of elephants to do that to Wheels ( camera on butt ) then go and tell Joey they're not filming a sexist video. If that's what feminism is then its not right.

I will say I believe Joey wanted Alison and Amy and Caitlin in the video not only as attractive models but also for their personalities. Zoe seems to think modelling is purely a physical state of being and doesn't cover personality as well. Go and ask what beauty contest judges base their decisions on. Claudia Schiffer ( and others ) doesn't get paid $20,000 a day just because she's got a great figure and face - she has to exert her personality as well for the camera to capture. Zoe keeps suggesting Joey solely wanted "flesh" in the video when there is no evidence whatsoever to support that view conclusively. I'll concede he wanted both flesh and personalities but as one package. I would draw to Zoe's attention when Joey was arguing with Lucy, after she said "I'm not filming a sexist video", he said quote: "Its not sexist - its a celebration of beauty" Refer to my point above. So there we have a clear indication of his intent - go and look up the meaning of "beauty" in the dictionary Zoe.

Zoe's claim feminism doesn't try to suppress male appreciation of females was not observed in that ephisode because that exactly what Lucy did. Joey was "trying to enrich" male appreciation of females in his video as far as I can see.

And laws caused by the feminist movement relating to equal rights for females have nothing to do with the point I raised Zoe. I agree you are entitled to your feminist opinions and me to mine but not for you to tell me how I should think otherwise we'll end up in George Orwell's "1984" world where the thought police are waiting to take us away.

Zoe claimed there was no set roles for either sex. There must be a predetermined role for females and males otherwise why would there be two sexes and not one ? ( lets not have a debate on religion ).

Furthermore I would say I am not "insecure" or "threatened" by feminisim but I dislike the totally unproductive disharmony it can create - such as the totally unnecessary friction and arguments Lucy created when she refused to shoot the video ( Joeys video - not hers ) with not only Joey but Alison as well. And the girls lost their $20 each to go to the concert. As I said - I just laughed at Lucy when I first saw that scene ( thought she was silly ). And I bet a lot of other guys watching that scene did too Zoe. ( For those who want the full story when I realized Alison and Amy were going to be in bikinis I raced over to the frig got an ice cold can of coke and sat down with my feet up. You can imagine how pissed off I was when it didn't happen. ).

My post was not an attack on you as a feminst or an attempt to belittle the feminist cause - it was merely pointing out the deficiencies in your arguments and false presumption you had made - namely the minute you saw someone making what you thought was a shovanist statement he automatically has a set of predetermined anti-feminist views seeing females as bimbos and meat etc.... Well you got that wrong baby.

If I misrepresented you Zoe I am sorry but your response was typical for a hardcore feminst who has warped preconceived notions of male attitudes and views. ( PS I'd like to see what you look like in a bikini sometime Zoe ).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In respect of BARRY YAU and other responses on racism regarding Michelle's father I believe interracial relationships may have less chance of succeeding - and am saying that as what may be observed fact. I include in "interracial" not just skin color but nationality - often e.g. relationships between say French and British or Germans etc have problems too sometimes. It was well known a hundred years ago that a lot of "international marriages" - notably of European aristocrats, were unhappy, and didn't work out. That is not to say many are successful.

We do not know exactly why Michelle's father ( if you remember there were two of them because they switched actors ) disliked BLT - maybe he was a little racist but I think his real motivation was pragmatism - I recall a line he said to Michelle "You think you know all the answers but you don't". That line to me infers his motivation was non racist and implies that he knew things would not last or work out - which is exactly what happened. And its his "real motivation" I was refering to in my assessment of his attitude in my last post.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To respond to Mark's comment about Joey getting what he deserved in Schools Out - that was in fact implied in my post - but my point was that he wasn't the only one. They tried to make out in the movie Caitlin was totally innocent and pure little angel and she was the vicitim - but she wasn't - because she did similar things to Joey with Claude a few years earlier and I think that almost classifies the movie as a bit of feminist propaganda as her behavour is completely overllooked while Joey's made to look the sole villan. I'm saying that as objective fact because I'm not anti-feminist ( as long as feminists don't behave like Nazis and try and force their views on and try and change the way guys think ).

Your point Mark that "Joey used Caitlin and Tessa" - I think both of them used him too to service their desires. It works both ways. I take the view Joey was entitled to nail Tessa because he wasn't married to Caitlin and remember Caitlin had in fact refused his engagment (marriage ) ring. She had sort of told him I'm not yours. At the time he accepted Tessa's first invitation to go out was before Caitlin tried to make up with him in the store. He was a free man at that moment and upset with Caitlin. I agree I wasn't good manners to see both at once. But as I pointed out he had effectively broken up with Tessa before he nailed Caitlin so he wasn't doing them both at the same time. His problem was he got sprung in the end. Caitlin and Tessa also got left with knowone. Caitlin had no right to get upset with Joey because she had dumped him and done
similar things with Claude and if she really loved him she'd have understood and forgiven him.

*Mark* I think that she wasn't very nice, seeing Claude while dating Joey, but that does not give Joey a right to do what he did. I think Caitlin was the victim, she sacrificed her future for him. I did feel bad when Caitlin preferred artsy-fartsy Claude over Joey, but she was younger, in high school. I do not think they were as serious in high school as they were in the final film. Still you raised a good point...Joey did not have the right to cheat on Caitlin. Although she refused his engagement ring, they were still going out, they were still committed to each other. It is still 100% wrong.

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From: "Always Right"
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: in response to Caitlin got what she deserved?
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:21:45 PST

To Mr. Sutcliffe:

After reading your post entitled "Caitlin got what she deserved", I
realized what a sexist individual you seem to be. May I ask how old
you are? because your views on women (as well as other issues) seem to
stem from the mind of a pre-adolescent young boy.
To state that Joey was justified in cheating on Caitlyn because she
denied him sex is rediculous. You mentioned that reasonable grounds for
divorce are "repeated refusal to engage in sexual intercourse". May I
remind you that CAITLIN AND JOEY WERE NOT MARRIED. They were simply a
representation of a typical teenage couple. The reason Caitlin "denied"
Joey sex (as you so gallantly put it) was because she was not READY to
have sex yet, a concept I am sure you are unfamiliar with as you are
probably still a horny pre-teen virgin high school boy who would screw
anything in a skirt.
Obviously you missed the entire point of that sequence in the show.
next time, pay more attention to the messages in degrassi rather than
Tessa's tits.

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From: AMFM88
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:58:18 EST
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: enough dawson bashing!

i know this has been spoken of before, but it just got to me when someone
mentioned that dawson's creek was NOT like degrassi.
i too used to think i hated dawson's creek, but then i actually watched one
episode start to finish, and if you take away the idea that these kids are in
high school (which is really irrational with their incredibly advanced vocab)
it is a good show.
and the mention that ready or not is like degrassi! puhhlease! ready or not
was about 2 booooooooring pre-teenage girls who were always fighting. i found
that show to be VERY "full house" styles. and easily paralleled to garbage,
rather than degrassi.
degrassi, i believe, was hard core. dealing with real issues, in real
situations, with real kids. both ready or not and degrassi were filmed in and
around toronto, although ready or not tried to disguise this. i have to give
credit to the pwt people to keep it real and not cut out the ttc (toronto transit corporation) and locations in toronto like the broadview health clinic, the
degrassi grocery, and most beloved queen street. to be true to one's city is
very american, but i think as canadians we need some more pride.

it is far too hard to relate degrassi to anything else. it was produced with
a lot less $$ and support than anything on today. one would be hard pressed
to see a television show teachers would show on filmstrips to their grade
fives instead of talking to them about sex. that is still my fondest degrassi
memory.

annie
*Mark* I completely agree with you...Degrassi did not hide the fact that it was in Toronto, but it was not in your face, like some American prime time dramatic shows. About bashing Dawson's Creek: No one is suppose to bash anything. Please let's all be nice on this list.
Let us allow each other's opinions, and there is no need to bash. Disagreeing is fine, but insults are not fine.
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From: "Donnie Jackson"
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: Anais Granofsky on OWL TV
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:27:57 PST

Anais Granofsky (Lucy) was on a PBS science show for kids called OWL/TV
from 1985 to 1987. Anais Granofsky was part of "The Mighty Mites,'' a
trio of youngsters who could shrink to microscopic size to explore
things.
*Mark* Thanks for the history on Anais. I will check if Natalie has not added it to the Showbiz section of Degrassi Legacy.
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From: "Nichole Yeoward"
To: <post@degrassi.org>
Subject: an Australian fan
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:08:50 +1030

Hey

My name is Nichole Yeoward and i come from Australia i was wondering if it was ever going to come back on TV

cheers

Nichole

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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:54:51 -0600
From: Macarena Martfeld
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: "feminism"

Okay, this is really quite ridiculous. It is quite evident that Andrew
Sutcliffe has an enormous insecurity problem about women, as Zoe Jackson
has stated. In practically every one of Andrew's posts, the word
"feminism" comes up and he uses the term VERY loosely and in a
derogatory fashion to which I take offense. You simply can't generalize
and label every woman feminist because they might be an assertive,
opinionated, intelligent, independent, rational person. Feminism
actually exists as many streams of thought, though they are all united
in their opposition to oppression. Even those who call themselves
feminists frequently disagree about the meanings and implications of
feminism. To imply that all feminists are lesbians or male bashers is
simply preposterous. I realize you did not say this outright, I am
merely stating, as Zoe did, the misconceptions of feminism. In fact, I
hate to break it to you Andrew but a man can also be a feminist. My
opinion is that you use the word as a lame attempt to excuse yourself
from any responsibility you might have of perpetuating the very myths
that oppress women and other marginal members of society. Or perhaps you
are naive, ignorant and not educated enough and for that you cannot be
blamed.

I disagree profusely that School's Out is about "suppressing" or
"manipulating" men. I actually found it insulting to all parties
involved- female and male. I can't believe that you try to substantiate
your comment about Joey cheating on Caitlin because he wasn't getting
any with a reference to marital laws from the seventies!!? Come on!
This movie was filmed in the nineties and this kind of archaic thinking
makes the guy look bad, not the girl. And in case you didn't notice,
they are not married. For Caitlin, she is damned if she does (a slut)
and damned if she doesn't (a prude). Also, your comment about Joey-
"who could blame him" for wanting Tessa- perpetuates that whole "men
can't help themselves" crap because it's "hardwired" theory that men use
as an excuse to be promiscuous. So really, Andrew, in both of these
arguments presented you end up shooting yourself in the foot. That's
the only comment I'm going to make on Andrew's post about School's Out
since I found it to be offensive and completely preposterous.

In his post about Joey's bum Andrew fails to forget that all throughout
Degrassi and School's out we saw women being exposed. We can go all the
way back to DJH with Stephanie Kaye and her "easy" attire that showed a
lot of skin. How about Tessa being felt up by Joey? Her breast was
almost entirely exposed. Again, in your desperation to pin everything
on "feminism" you did not objectively research your argument. Also,
what IS your obsession with Caitlin?

Degrassi was attempting to be a progressive series for the times in
which it aired. The fact is that the show wasn't reinforcing
comforting, familiar gender myths that the vast majority subscribes to.
It was geared to overturn the myths which we've internalized about
gender, race, love, relationships,etc. If this bothers you Andrew, then
don't watch it and get over it. The reason feminism is a hard concept
for most people (even women) to understand is because it requires an
adjustment of thought and frankly, people don't want to rethink their
boundaries around what they call "their discipline". You, Andrew
Sutcliffe, seem to suffer from built-in inflexibility, not sexism, and
the disease is patriarchy -institutionalized white, middle-class,
heterosexual male dominance, not the domination of women by men. The
feminist movement, as well as black, native, gay and lesbian movements,
is about resisting this structure.

Lastly, as a note to Zoe Jackson, you go girl! Quit apologizing for
your intellect, your strengths and passion, it makes you who you are.
For everyone's information, I will never be responding to another post
by Andrew Sutcliffe as I find it to be an exercise in futility.

*Mark* Amazing...I hope Andrew will think about what he posts...He can upset a great deal of people.
Andrew, you seem to be a functionalist, by your views on society. Although there are millions of people who take this stance, please note that functionalism belongs in the 1950's. Times have changed....
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From: "Trevor Hebert"
To: <webmaster@degrassi.org>
Subject: Re: School's Out Video!!!
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 06:12:38 -0500

Maybe they should continue the show. Like they could have them
doing the everyday thing of an adults life,like getting jobs,
getting fired from their jobs,money troubles,raising families etc... Think this is lame? I think people will watch
it because we all love the show and we grew up with the
show. I started watching the show when it was Kids of
Degrassi Street,and now I'm 24 years old and I still watch
all the repeats.
Trevor.
*Mark* I'm 24, and I still watch the show over and over and over...
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Degrassi World # 39: Snake Gets a Date, written by Andrew Sutcliffe
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It was almost the end of grade 11 and ALISON was desperate - she still hadn't had that long awaited date with SNAKE. She couldn't permit this to happen. Accordingly extreme measures were called for. After all, she had lost him to Melanie, Amy, Spike and Michelle on previous occasions. ( Alison saw herself like one of Canada's famous Mounties - she always got her man ).

All sort of ideas entered her head on how to trick him into asking her - she'd even heard about Arthur's note on the locker caper that got Alex and Tessa together.
The note method was worth a go - she placed the note on Snake's locker asking him to meet his secret admirer at a certain cafe near the school - unfortunately Alison's was so excited she mis-spelt the name which resulted in Snake going to the wrong place ( which was miles aways ) and just happened to be the street where another girl he liked - Kathleen - happened to live. Snake asked Kathleen out when they met that afternoon. ( Kathleen, if anyone's interested, still wasn't talking to Melanie over telling about what was in her diary ).

When she eventually found out it was all too much for Alison.

It suddenly enterred her beautiful little head there WAS one foolproof way - a blind double-date. This plan called for Amy's co-operation and she figured she owed it considering how they caught in the bathroom undressed arguing over the clothing they swapped - while fighting over Snake.

A dance was nearing - time to go to work - Amy had to ask a friend of Snake's to go to the dance and he in turn had to convince Snake to go blind for a friend of Amy's. But who ? Wheels ? Joey ? Amy figured on Clutch was the best candidate - so she got Clutch hooked and he convinced Snake to go telling him a friend of Amy's from out of town was the date. The plan was of course that this friend would change her plans and Alison would fill her place at the last minute. All was running smoothly and set to go when luck would have it Amy got sick. By this time Alison had was just about ready to scream and freak out. To Alison this was a disaster of unheardof proportions.

To save Alison Amy rang Snake and told him her date would meeting outside the school. Alison made a beeline for school and on the spur of the moment decided that it would be more convincing if both of their dates stood them up and then they could go into together. The plan worked.

The dance was one of those evenings you'd rather forget. Snake was so tall and Alison so short that it was hard for them to dance properly let alone snuggle up. Snake couldn't dance properly and kept stepping on Alison's toes. When they went to get punch Snake accidently split a cup over Alisons $500 designer white satin dress she had waited a long time to get. On top of that Snake really wasn't on her wavelength - they didn't have much to talk about.

In the end Alison decided Snake wasn't worth it. It was time to cut her losses but she couldn't go home by herself so she let Joey take her home ( because he'd just had another blue with Caitlin ) as he had been observing her and Snake together all night. Caitlin of course was furious. Joey had been waiting for this moment for a long time and when they got to Alison's home he got an invite inside. They sat on the back porch talking about the disaster evening both of them had had.
Joey complained Caitlin's problem was all of that femminst rubbish she went on with and Alison said she didn't believe in that stuff. Joey grinned. When Joey eventually left he a got a little kiss from Alison.

Caitlin went home alone. Snake wasn't too upset because it was a blind date and he didn't really like Alison anyway.

Amy by the way was faking it about being sick because she was nervous about going with Clutch - she had heard about his drinking and what happened with Lucy. At the last minute she decided it was wrong to stand Clutch up and her evening ended up not much better than Alisons. So she left with Snake.

End result was they all had a lot to talk about and fix up in the following weeks - as is usual in Degrassi ephisodes. Can you imagine what happened with Caitlin, Joey and Alison ?
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Andrew, run for cover!---End of DD #58
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