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The Degrassi Digest # 57 February 11, 1999
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I N S I D E:
OK, OK, just 'one' last word
Opinion poll from Degrassi fans
Where to watch Degrassi?
lucy spotting
Re: shovanist" or "chauvinist"
Joey and Caitlin in School's Out
SCHOOL'S OUT - CAITLIN GOT WHAT SHE DESERVED ?
Hello...Degrassi info
Re: Degrassi Racism
Opinion poll from Degrassi fans
Showcase
Re: POSTS
Re: Joey's bum
Some Degrassi thoughts
Degrassi World # 38: Sabrina launches Degrassi Digest On Line
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From: "Zoe Jackson"
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: OK, OK, just 'one' last word
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:03:37 PST
She’s back. That hysterical, ‘radical’ feminist who just won’t
shut up. Lock your doors and shut your windows, people. There’s a storm
a brewin’.
Forgive me for the melodrama, but I am merely highlighting how I
have been (consciously or unconsciously) stereotyped by Andrew
Sutcliffe. I guess I struck a nerve, Andrew, which must explain the
antagonistic tone of your post. I’m sorry that I’ve offended you. You
obviously found me to be pompous and condescending, which was not my
aim. If you go back to my original post, you will find that I have tried
to present a logical critique of your argument, and even stated at the
start ‘it is a good thing that you feel comfortable to express your
opinions on this free-speech internet forum’. I may get a bit
impassioned sometimes (that’s the kind of person I am) but I certainly
respect your right to express your opinion and was not trying to
‘suppress’ your view as you claim I ‘effectively’ was doing. In
response
to your allegation that I was ‘missing your point’, you made no mention
in your first post of Lucy forcing her perceptions on others, and so I
did not respond to that point. I apologise for rambling (that’s another
part of the long-winded person that I am!) and I must also apologise for
concentrating more on the meaning and history of feminism than on the
episode in question – I have not seen that episode for years and thus my
memory of it is not crystal-clear. Considering this is a
Degrassi-related forum, I realise that my post may seem irrelevant but I
was simply trying to respond to Andrew’s post which, in my view,
evidenced a fundamental misunderstanding of what feminism is.
Well, enough of the apologies. I am not going to answer everything
you have said in your recent post Andrew because otherwise this message
will go on forever! However, I will make a few points.
Firstly, I still maintain that from my recollection of the
aforementioned episode, Joey’s desire for bikini girls in his video clip
was not due to a belief in their worth as people, but simply because he
wanted some attractive flesh in the clip to try, as you stated Andrew,
‘brighten up’ the video. If he really did want them in the video because
he wanted their nice personalities to shine through, he wouldn’t have
needed them in bikinis, would he? Secondly, I did not try and distort
your views on feminism. Your first post was brief – you didn’t explain
clearly what you meant and I could only take your comments at face
value. I was not trying to ‘twist’ your words, and frankly, your comment
that ‘this is typical’, obviously branding and stereotyping me as one of
a perceived large group of devious, extreme feminists is something I
find offensive. Andrew, it seems to me that you are suffering from a
common case of insecurity – you feel threatened by feminism and thus
need to make personal attack on feminists to belittle their cause. This,
of course, is just my impression: I do not mean to stereotype you as a
‘sexist’ which would be unfair of me. Furthermore, I never said that you
said feminists were ‘men-haters’ etc etc, I was just highlighting that
this is another of the common misconceptions about feminism, similar to
those you seemed to demonstrate. One of MY points, which may have been
too subtle, is that believing women should not be exploited is not
radical or extreme but just a belief consistent with your ordinary,
run-of-the-mill feminism. I am, although you obviously don’t believe
this, a LIBERAL feminist – the fact that you seem to judge me otherwise
seems to highlight a misunderstanding of the feminist movement on your
part.
Thirdly, I do not deny that part of a human’s function, whether one
is male or female, is to reproduce. However, I do not accept that ‘the
role of females in most instances be it humans or animals is that of
existing for the attachment to and admiration of males and vice-versa’.
I don’t think this can be seen as the ROLE of any human being. Yes, you
may feel that a fundamental, even primordial element of human existence
is the admiration of the other sex so as to continue procreation and
maintain the human race, but certainly our human lives are more complex
than that. Although sex and admiration does come into the equation, the
creation of society, laws, cities, art and all the other elements which
identify human civilisation can not be simply explained because at some
point Joe wanted to attract Anna, Sarah admired Fred and wanted to have
sex with him, Lucy was maritally attached to Nathan and so on. In our
current, free society where there are innumerable choices confronting
every individual, I don’t think any human being, male or female, has a
predetermined role. We choose, according to our personal preferences and
the confines of our social and economic situation, whether we will work,
marry, have children, even have sex in the first place. It is no excuse
for Joey’s behaviour that he was merely helping the females fulfil their
role in society, for, in my opinion, no such role exists.
Fourthly, I also still contest the fact that feminism is, as
Andrew feels, ‘unhealthy and unproductive’. Feminism does NOT try to
‘suppress male appreciation of females’. In fact, it attempts to enrich
male appreciation by taking it from a merely superficial level to
encompassing all attributes of females, including intellect, personality
and emotional strength. By inciting ‘arguments’, feminism has also in
fact been quite productive through helping to change the overwhelming
patriarchal bias of society and aiding the passage of laws which more
readily enable females to attain an equal status in society. Feminism
today plays an important role in highlighting hidden sexism which stills
restricts true equality. Even if some feminist attacks may be too
pedantic, surely stimulating discussion and prompting deeper thought
into important issues is something we should value, not vilify.
Fifthly (so much for this not being long!), I wish to point out
that nothing, read NOTHING in my post demonstrated any alleged
‘subjective’ feminist belief that female sexism is OK. Read it again,
and see for yourself. Instead, Andrew, I would suggest that this
incorrect assumption by you was due to you pre-judging me as one of your
hated feminist stereotypes. In fact, if you knew me you would know that
I am as appalled when a female treats a male merely as a piece of meat
as when it happens the other way round. I cannot and did not mention
Melanie’s comment because I do not remember it – this is not subjective
feminism, just due to the fact that I have not seen Degrassi for years.
You obviously know the episodes better than I do. You will be surprised
to know that from your description of the episode in question, I do
agree that double standards were highlighted and seemingly highlighted
well. I do not subscribe to these double standards, so please do not
label me as something I am not. It is an easy trap to fall into, and I
apologise if I have done that with you.
OK, now I must apologise to everyone for the length of this. It’s
sorta got out of hand, hasn’t it? Don’t worry, the ‘feminist monster’
is
now too tired, and too busy, to come back for a sequel. I will end by
saying that none of what I have said is the absolute truth, it is just
my opinion and I respect the right of others to have different opinions.
I wish you, Andrew, would do the same.
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From: Donnie Jackson
Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 10:09 PM
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject:Re: Opinion poll from Degrassi fans
Part 1 - If you could choose three shows that were equal to Degrassi in
merit, which ones would you choose?
My three best shows are My So-Called Life, Straight Up, and Dangerous
Minds.
Part 2 - Now choose the three shows that are the opposite of Degrassi,
having little merit.
My three worst shows are 7th Heaven, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, and Moesha.
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Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:54:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Sarah Thomson
Subject: Where to watch Degrassi?
To: post@degrassi.org
I am wondering now that Showcase has taken Degrassi off of its lunchtime
programming, where are we supposed to watch it? Why hasn't CBC
put it back on in rerun format?
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From: "natasha mckenna"
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: lucy spotting
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:48:37 PST
Hey I was wondering if anyone could help me out here. I was watching tv
with my dad the other day when he flipped by a channel with a movie
which lucy fernadez was in. This time she was teaching a class instead
of being a student. My father refused to stay on the channel so I never
got to see what it was called or anything. Can anyone help me with this
one?
Thanks
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From: "A Papernick"
To: "Degrassi Digest" <post@degrassi.org>
Subject: Re: shovanist" or "chauvinist"
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:41:51 -0500
I'm no expert on English throughout the Empire, but I say this quite
confidently: I'm sure that in Australia, as in Canada, "shovanist" is not a
word, "chauvinist" is. Additionally, "ephisode" is not a word,
"episode" is.
And to Mr. Sutcliffe-please elaborate on how interracial dating is
"impractical." Have you done research?
Aron P.
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From: HWIL1998
Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 1:48 AM
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: Joey and Caitlin in School's Out
I am just curious. I haven't seen School's Out, but I have read the synopsis. Just out
of curiousity, at the end did Joey ask
Caitlin to take him back, or was it just obvious they wouldn't get back
together? Also, when Caitlin found out about Joey and Tessa, did he try to
apologize? Thanks for any help! I am just really curious about it, Joey and
Caitlin were always my favorite. Thanks!
*Mark* Tessa broke up with Joey....as Joey basically used her, because Caitlin was
"busy". Caitlin found out that he was sleeping with Tessa for most of the
summer, and she broke up with him. He was left with no one.
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From: "ANDREW SUTCLIFFE"
To: "Degrassi Digest" <post@degrassi.org>
Subject: SCHOOL'S OUT - CAITLIN GOT WHAT SHE DESERVED ?
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:24:51 +1100
Several years ago when I was at Melbounre University I walked into an economics tute
room one day to find the following statement written on the whiteboard: - " The
problem with most chicks is they don't understand the laws of demand and supply ". It
reminds me of Caitlin's stance in School's Out - as Joey saw it. ( Of course the girls
would put it the other way round ).
I sort of think Caitlin got what she deserved in School's Out when Joey went out with
Tessa ( because she was unwilling ). In the olden days prior to the reform of divorce laws
in the 1970s under Imperial law which applied to Canada, Australia etc... one of the only
grounds for marital divorce was that of cruelty - i.e. repeated refusal to have sex. Now
doesn't that very thing apply to Caitlin - and that Joey had a right to exit the
relationship and nail Tessa ? They were both over 18 and their relationship classifiable
as almost defacto. Besides who could blame Joey given that Tessa had become a sexy little
thing ?
Bear in mind I wouldn't be saying this if I were talking about Melanie or Kathleen
because they were much nicer and deserving of first class treatment than Caitlin. They
never did the things Caitlin did.
When you analyze it Caitlin got what only the expected outcome could be. Consideration
has its limits especially given how long they were going out for. But Joey's mistake was
to not break it off with Caitlin. You can't lite both ends of a candle and not expect to
get burned. He should have told Caitlin.
And as Caitlin had strung Joey along, you could say he was entitled to string her along
- and after all Tessa asked him out, not him her. My point is - both of them were at fault
( Joey probably more than Caitlin because he was doing two at once ). And Tessa should
have been smart enough to figure out something was wrong as she had to do all the asking
so she is also part to blame for her end outcome. So they all got what fate destined had
coming to them and I think that's one of the themes of the movie. ( I actually felt Tessa
got the rawest deal because she was the only innocent one of the trio ).
One last point remains - Joey had effectively broken it off with Tessa hours before he
nailed Caitlin - remember their argument in the store when he told her she couldn't go to
Bronco's party and she threw the birthday present at him - so he was not nailing both of
them at the same time. That fact sort of mitigates his guilt I think. But Caitlin
over-reacted because she forgets the hurt she did to him when she dumped him for Clode.
Bearing that in mind I suppose you could say Joey's conduct with Tessa sort of evens it up
because Caitlin was seeing both Joey and Clode at the same time at one point and she
didn't tell him. Certainly didn't tell him about her kissing Clode in the corridor.
Because of that Joey shouldn't have appologized to Caitlin to the degree he did. He should
have reminded her the way he got hurt when she dumped him for Clode - remember how upset
he was - wouldn't go for fries after filming that politically correct video ( the one
without the bikini girls ). So here we have yet another Degrassi show where the hard-core
feminists manipulate and slant the script to make the guys feel guilty again and make the
feminist look like the innocent party when in fact she's also at fault.
Come to think of it the entire movie was a subtle feminist dumping on the guys because
it also shows: Wheels as a reckless drunk that injures another feminist ( Lucy ); then
Snake spending his whole summer as a predatory lifeguard only wanting to nail some female;
Simon as inconsiderate of Alexa over the wedding showers; and Todd as a pig to to Tessa at
the beginning, as well as failing to refer back to Caitlin's misdemeanours with Clode. The
girls are all good and the boys are all bad. And I think all the above is a fair
assessment of Caitlin and the movie. Yes its definitely a feminist film but given the
realistic situations - that some guys do behave like that - it is somewhat truthful and
relevant despite being slanted. It's almost like a subtle version of IT CREEPS where the
girl gets all the guys.
One of the key conclusions to be drawn from Schools Out is that in any interpsersonal
relationships THE FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE causes big problems in the end - especially
between males and females. If Tessa had asked Joey clearly if he'd broken up with Caitlin
she wouldn't have got into strife nor if she had told Joey about the pregnancy straight
out she might have been able to salvage something. What would Joey have done if he'd have
known ? Would he have seen Caitlin that night or provoked Snake the next day ? Would he
have even gone to Bronco's party ?
If anyone thinks I'm being a bit harsh on Caitlin I did end up thinking she was a
little sweetie towards the end of the show after she got away from Clode's influence -
remember how she let Kathleen cry on her shoulder that time. And you must admit she is
attractive. But her prior behavior ( re: Clode ) warrants balancing with Joey's conduct.
I would like everyone's view on this and my ongoing colourful contributions to the
Digest are to generate some diversity in opinion - so girls and guys please send in your
views.
Andrew
*Mark* I think Joey got what he deserved...being left with no one....He used both Tessa
and Caitlin...
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From: NeeNee7809
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:00:43 EST
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: Hello...Degrassi info
Hello,
Degrassi Jr High, and High use to come on at my local public television
station in Philadelphia, PA. Now for some reason I am not sure that it is on
anymore. So I was wondering if possible you have video tapes for sale or do
you know if Philadelphia will ever have this show broadcast again.
thanks
Shaneena
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From: "Barry Yau"
To: post@degrassi.org
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:51:20 +0000
Subject: Re: Degrassi Racism
> From: ANDREW SUTCLIFFE
> To: Degrassi Digest <post@degrassi.org>
> Date: Tuesday, 5 January 1999 17:34
> Subject: DEGRASSI RACISM ?
>
>
> I liked Michelle's dad in Degrassi. The one who didn't like her
> going out with BLT. He was not a racist but a pragmatist.
> Despite the fact he was a bit hot-headed and blood-pressure prone
> he is a good role model for a father. Total opposite of
> Caitlin's dad who had that extra-martial affair whereas he threw
> out Michelle's mom because she did the same thing. And look at
> the way he helped her after she split - gave her the $500 for
> the ring she pawned, made sure she didn't skip school. A good
> role model and a cool guy. I'd have a beer with him anyday (
> if I drank alcohol ).
> In the end he was right - that inter-racial dating is
> impractical and fails - because BLT dumped Michelle for a black
> girl named Cindy. And I suspect there may have been some subtle
> subconscious racism in BLT for doing that. Not that I have
> anything against BLT who was a nice fellow.
>
> What does everybody else think ?
I'd have to disagree with Andrew with respect to Michelle's father
being a "pragmatist" instead of a racist. The fact is, Michelle's
father loathed the fact Michelle was dating BLT because he was black.
I bet if Michelle was dating Wheels or Joey the father would have
welcomed him with open arms.
I don't think the BLT-Michelle breakup can be attributed to the
problems of interracial dating. Sure, there can be problems in
interracial dating, just as there are problems in same race dating.
The fact was, BLT fell for another woman. The fact she was also
black is irrelevant to the issue of interracial dating. In Degrassi,
we saw people of the same race date and break up - should we
attribute this to their reluctance to date people of the same race?
Of course not.
Barry
*Mark* BLT got tired of Michelle and her family problems...I got the impression that he
lost his patience for her. The spark that they had seemed to fade.
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From: "Shawna Glenwood"
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:24:45 +0000
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: Opinion poll from Degrassi fans
Part 1 - If you could choose three shows that were equal to Degrassi in merit, which ones would you choose?
I vote is for Fifteen, Party of Five, and Ready or Not
Part 2 - Now choose the three shows that are the opposite of Degrassi, having little merit.
I vote for Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Clueless, and Dawson's Creek.
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Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 16:07:38 -0500
From: Courtney
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: Showcase
In response to Larrisa and Kristina, Showcase is no longer playing
Degrassi High or Degrassi Jr. High. I believe they stopped playing the
show 2 months ago which is very dissappointing.
Courtney
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From: "ANDREW SUTCLIFFE"
To: "Degrassi Digest" <post@degrassi.org>
Subject: Re: POSTS
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:36:36 +1100
Was Rick an extra in Deg High ? I remember a fellow
that looked like him there in the background several times and
in the movie too. Why did they cut him out of the show?
*Mark* I do not remember seeing him after "Pass Tense" ever again.
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From: "ANDREW SUTCLIFFE"
To: "Degrassi Digest" <post@degrassi.org>
Subject: Re: Joey's bum
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:56:50 +1100
In SCHOOLS OUT did you see in your CBC version Joey
getting out of bed naked and his bum exposed ? Or did they cut
that out ? There was an awful lot of feminism in that too - is
ok to do that to the boys but you never saw Caitlin in a
proper 2 piece bikini. It was in our version ( Joey ).
*Mark* The domestic version of School's Out did show Joey's butt.
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:52:14 +0300 (MSK)
From: "Alex Brown"
To: post@degrassi.org
Subject: Some Degrassi thoughts
Hey from Russia =) I think that Degrassi series
are the best movie about teenage life. It would
be really cool if some company decides to make new
movies like that, with real teen actors. Not like
this absolutely stupid Beverly Hills.
The girl who plays Kathleen is really really pretty. :)
Well, its my first letter, but I'll be back with some new
ideas.
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Degrassi World # 38: Sabrina launches Degrassi Digest On Line
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Excitement flowed throughout the Degrassi Digest newsroom as the new
Macintosh computers arrived. Sabrina, the Digest editor, was particularly
happy. The old "dinosaur" Macs being retired were the same ones that her
mother, Caitlin, used when she reported for the Digest. Until now, the
Degrassi Digest staff had produced the newspaper through primitive methods:
cutting and pasting articles onto layout boards then photocopying and
stapling by hand. It was embarrassing so the staff members (Chloe, Bethany,
Amethyst, Emma, Shawn, Jacob, and Christian) tantrumed until Degrassi
Junior High agreed to upgrade. Now they would produce professional quality
newspapers with Quark XPress and Page Maker. Since they were on a roll,
they tried to get digital cameras for photojournalism . . . but no such
luck.
It was Sabrina who got the brilliant idea to transfer The Degrassi Digest
from print format to an on-line version. Sabrina called an emergency staff
meeting and suggested that they publish the newspaper as a website.
Everybody loved the idea, except for once problem: there was not money in
the budget to pay for Internet access or domain hosting fees. So they
brainstormed for fundraising ideas. Chloe wanted a fashion show starring
her as the main supermodel. Jacob suggest a video game seminar where he'd
charge lessons for his best Nintendo and Sega strategies. Bethany suggested
a "rave" style dance-a-thon. But ultimately they decided that a bake sale
would be cheapest and easiest.
At home Sabrina and Caitlin spent the evening making rice chrispie treats
and M&M brownies. Baking was the easy part, warding off Joey from tasting
was the hard part. The bake sale was a success, they earned enough money to
get Degrassi Digest On Line started. The first issue was expectedly
haphazard because nobody had experience with HTML codes. However, the
thrill of being semi-famous on the Internet made up for it. The End.
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End of Degrassi Racism, Sexism, and other "isms"--#57
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